Dina Alongi Caggiula: Now I'm having more money. That's the moment I should increase my contributions.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: it is literally free money.
Grace Lemire: it's better to invest something than to invest nothing.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: a little bit. That can start going towards retirement
Alan Adjei: So let me ask you this. If his future self can send you a text right now about your money, what would they tell you to start doing right now? Welcome back to my finance era. I'm Alan, and this is a podcast where we break down the real money questions you're asking to help you take your next best step.
Alan Adjei: Today we're going into the fundamentals of retirement for one case employer matches and what to do even when you don't have access to one. Because the truth is, the small moves you make early can really change everything later. I'm joined today by creator Grace Lemire and Vanguard expert Dina Caggiula.
Alan Adjei: Excited to have you both here today.
Grace Lemire: Excited to be here.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: I'm thrilled to be here. You're giving me major cool points with my ten-year-old daughter.
Alan Adjei: Let’s go. That's amazing. That's amazing. Well, Grace, we'll start with you. Most people in their 20s aren't really thinking this intentional about the money.
Alan Adjei: They kind of just go with the flow. So you've taken a different approach and are sharing more openly about your money journey. So what has pushed you to be so intentional early and bring people along, while you’re still in the journey yourself?
Grace Lemire: I have always viewed being really wise with my money as something that's going to give me more freedom and flexibility and choice.
Grace Lemire: You know, if I have money saved, I can buy the thing I want because I have the money there. Or, you know, once I start investing, I it gives me the peace of mind knowing that, you know, I'll probably be better off in retirement than if I don't. And I honestly started sharing about it and taking people along for that journey, because I wanted to give people that same kind of feeling like you can create a lot more freedom and flexibility and choice for yourself if you, you know, do smart things with your money now.
Grace Lemire: I also think online it's, you know, you might not have someone in your immediate circle like a family member or friend or a parent that, you know, is really transparent about their finances. And so I think for me, being able to provide that to someone online and take them along for that might open their mind up to, wow, “okay, there's a lot more I can be doing with my money and maybe should be doing with my money that I just didn't know about before.”
Grace Lemire: And that can be really impactful for people, so I love being able to share it.
Alan Adjei: That's amazing. I love that and there's so much power and knowledge. And really, that's what we're going to be talking about today. Like this early money moves that you make right now, like retirement can really help shape your future. So I'm excited to have Dina with us, and I'll love to bring you into this conversation.
Alan Adjei: So you’ve been with Vanguard for over 14 years.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: I have!
Alan Adjei: Which is impressive, and today you lead the work focused on helping millions of people
Alan Adjei: navigate the finances and feel more prepared for the future, especially when it comes to retirement.
Alan Adjei: So, what's behind that passion for you, helping people start early and make smarter financial decisions?
Dina Alongi Caggiula: Yeah, I think for me, I came from really humble beginnings and parents that worked extremely hard to provide for us.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: And I saw at a young age that if I could get a great education, work at a fabulous company like Vanguard, and start to save early, it would give me that financial freedom that I so desired. So today I have the luxury of leading client experience for workplace business, or retirement business. And that means my team thinks each and every day about how do we support investors on that journey, everything from opening their first retirement account through your retirement and just giving them that guidance on what are the actions you could take now to set you up for retirement readiness?
Alan Adjei: That is amazing. So let's just dive right in.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: Let's do it.
Alan Adjei: Let's do it. Okay, so retirement can actually feel really far away for a lot of young people. Like years and years and years. Like I consider myself young.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: You are young!
Grace Lemire: You are young! Yeah!
Dina Alongi Caggiula: I think I'm young too.
Alan Adjei: You know, we're all young. Oh, yeah. Well, yeah.
Alan Adjei: So it's really easy to not think about it early on just because I just feel so far away. But we know that making early decisions can really have a big impact over time. So when someone starts early, how should we think about the different ways to begin planning, especially when there are so many different paths out there, whether it's through the employer or by themselves?
Alan Adjei: Like how should they start thinking about that?
Dina Alongi Caggiula: Well, the most important thing is that they take a step and they start to save at all. Yeah, it doesn't matter how little you save. You've got the tailwinds of interest in compounding. So those small amounts can add up to be something really significant. I was playing around some numbers this morning.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: If you save $10 a week for the next 40 years, you could accumulate about $60,000. Like that's significant.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: Start small.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: And then as your income grows, you can continue to increase those contributions over time. And ultimately, we'd like to see you save up to 12 to 15% of your total income. And that would include any type of match that came from an employer. But we know that it takes time to build up towards that. I certainly couldn't do that in my 20s, and only recently was able to get to that kind of maximum amount.
Alan Adjei: And you talk about this thing. You said the employer match you like just briefly talking about it. But I've heard things like 401Ks, like what is that? What is the 401K? What is an employer match? Why does it matter?
Dina Alongi Caggiula: Yes. Okay. So 401K is essentially when your employer is offering you a retirement plan that you can contribute to.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: The main benefit of it is it's tax deferred. So what you can do is you can actually put your dollars in pretax, which means it minimizes the taxes you have to pay today. And you take, when you take those withdrawals out in retirement, that's when you'll pay your taxes. For most people, your income's less in retirement.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: Therefore your tax rate is less. And so that's the main benefit is you're deferring those taxes for a later date.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: Roth would be the opposite. Roth would be I'm going to pay the taxes now so that when I start taking that money out in retirement, I don't have to worry about taxes.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: And then usually A401K also comes with an employer match. Over 90% of plans offer an employer match. And that just simply means they're also giving you some contributions. So it may sound something like “Dina, if you save 4%, I will match you another 4%.”
Dina Alongi Caggiula: And now you're actually in total, getting 8% of your income into your retirement plan.
Grace Lemire: Do you see a lot of benefit young people taking that? Do a lot of people take the match?
Dina Alongi Caggiula: It's a great question. I would say we see people take advantage, but there's so many that are leaving free money on the table. So not enough Grace like more people.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: I think we need to empower them and help them to appreciate it is literally free money. So I always say at least save to the match. If you can save beyond the match, great, but that's a good guideline to maybe have in mind is like at least get to match.
Grace Lemire: Dina, I'm really curious your thoughts on this.
Grace Lemire: I feel like with a lot of my friends and my audience, they know that they should probably be contributing up to that employer match. But they also have other financial obligations, like student loan debt or credit card debt. And so they're trying to figure out how to manage all of that. And I'm curious what your thoughts are on that.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: Well, that was me in my 20s because I had a tremendous amount of student loan debt. I went right from my undergrad straight into grad school, so I was carrying tens of thousands of dollars of debt, and I was working at Vanguard. I wanted to contribute. So I was trying to decide like, what is, what's the right order?
Dina Alongi Caggiula: And how do I do things?
Dina Alongi Caggiula: First, take advantage of the match because it is free money. Right. So and you want to make sure you're saving at least something towards retirement. So do that first and then really make a dent in your high interest debt. So start with the high interest debt work, your way down.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: Typically that's credit card debt is maybe even higher than student loan debt. So really look at the interest rates. And then after that you see, “Hey do I have any remaining dollars. Could I actually contribute even more towards my retirement?” That's really the order I would think about it.
Alan Adjei: Alright, so, Dina, I know we've talked a lot about this employer match, but are there any other benefits that could potentially help you along in retirement as well?
Dina Alongi Caggiula: Sure. Maybe one that we haven't talked about yet, actually, is the health savings account or an HSA.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: The beauty in an HSA is that you can start to put in pretax dollars and then you can pull that money out for qualified medical expenses. And so you get a triple tax benefit in doing that. Right. So you're putting the dollars in pretax there growing tax deferred. And then you can take them out tax free for qualified medical expenses.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: And what's really great about the HSA is you can use it like, in year for medical costs. Or that money continues to grow over time. And it can roll over year over year. So some people are using that as another retirement savings vehicle.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: Because often in retirement the medical costs are really significant. So you can use some of it in year.
Alan Adjei: Alrighty. So let's look at a number that puts this whole start early thing into perspective. So we found in a recent Vangaurd survey that amongst 18 to 34 year olds with a workplace retirement plan, 50% say they contributed enough to get the full employer match and only 18% maximize their contributions.
Alan Adjei: So, Dina, when you hear that, what stands out to you and what do you think people might be missing out on when it comes to taking advantage of those early opportunities?
Dina Alongi Caggiula: Well, I think two things stand out to me. First is, you know, you're discouraged when you hear only 50% take advantage of the match because we've said it a number of times today.
Grace Lemire: That's free money. Like we don't want to leave that on the table. So I think the first lesson is we want to try to really get folks to take advantage of at least saving to the match. Hopefully they can go even beyond. But the other stat is kind of encouraging and really interesting because you're seeing 18% are maxing out, and those are often this kind of new generation that we're calling “FIRE”, financially independent retire early.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: And it's investors that want to save more now, which is going to require some sacrifice so that they can retire at 50 and they don't have to work until 60 or 65. And so it's encouraging you're seeing that pick up a bit. But I also want to acknowledge it's not possible for everyone and it's probably not the likely scenario.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: So I think for the masses, it's really about contributing what you can, what's in your budget and what you're able to do. Small sacrifices sometimes,
Dina Alongi Caggiula: can make all the difference.
Alan Adjei: be honest, I don't want to work until I'm 65
Grace Lemire: Me either!
Alan Adjei: So. but thinking about that, you mentioned something about the max contribution, and maybe it's a little hard to get there.
Alan Adjei: So how should people think about increasing and getting to that goal as their income grows over time? Because hopefully your income is growing as you're figuring out this journey of life. But like, how do people start thinking about the target and how to get there if they're not there right now?
Dina Alongi Caggiula: So I always say use life events or, work events as kind of your trigger moment.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: So often you get a review every year and hopefully with that review control raise, that's a great trigger moment. So in your head you think to yourself, “Okay, now I'm having more money. That's the moment I should increase my contributions.” Or maybe you got paid a bonus. Another great moment to say, “Yes, I want to spend this, but can I take just even a little bit of that and also put it towards my retirement?”
Dina Alongi Caggiula: Maybe you had some type of inheritance that came your way. You know, we're seeing a lot of generational wealth is shifting to younger investors another kind of life event moment to say, “Can I take a portion of that and put it towards retirement?” So I use those milestones as ways to kind of remind people that you can start to increase more.
Grace Lemire: I'm going to chuck that on my debt. You think about the progress that that makes. I think if we could apply the same mindset to investing such a great plan. Right. Because I think, you know, sometimes you do get like a big, you know, chunk of cash for something. But even when you get those little, you know, 50 bucks,
Grace Lemire: you know, grandma gets you money for your birthday or whatever it might be.
Grace Lemire: Yeah. It's like, can I, can you invest it instead? I think that's like a really good mindset to apply to.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: Yeah. And I don't love balance checkers. Right. Because sometimes that could be risky if you're, like, constantly checking your balance. And it forces you to, you know, overthink it. But sometimes checking your balance is just some real
Dina Alongi Caggiula: reassurance because you see that money
Dina Alongi Caggiula: growing and like that actually makes you feel good and motivated to say, “This is paying off.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: Like I want to save more.” And then I mentioned some of those retirement tools. They're really cool because sometimes it can show you like what that's going to grow to in 20 years. And again that that's a that's a motivator and incentive.
Alan Adjei: Yeah. That is really helpful. And what is interesting I think about it is that not everyone has access to those like built in structures.
Alan Adjei: Your path has definitely been more self-directed and you've not had something like a workplace plan. So how has that shaped the way you think about planning for the future and staying intentional with your money?
Grace Lemire: I mean, I think it goes back to kind of what I was saying, that, you know, I know that I have to figure it out on my own.
Grace Lemire: I have to make sure that, you know, I'm looking at the contribution limits of the account that I'm using, that I'm making sure that when I'm depositing money into the account, it's actually getting invested in something. It's not just sitting there.
Grace Lemire: whether you're working, you know, a W-2 job or whether you are, you know, self-employed like I am, it is something that you have to think consciously about to a degree.
Grace Lemire: But I think if you can try to remove, at least for me, what helps me is removing friction from the process, making it easier to invest early and often. So for me, one thing I do is just automate. I automate everything. I know what my contribution limits are. I automate that, you know, deposit every single month. I automate the investment portion of it as well so that, you know, I do go and I check my account and make sure everything's running smoothly.
Grace Lemire: But then that way it's not something every month where I'm like, oh my gosh, did I invest my money this month? Know where am I at? I just know that it's happening and I can check in. And that makes it a lot, a lot easier.
Alan Adjei: And I know Gracie said you're doing it by yourself. But, Dina, let's be honest.
Alan Adjei: There are ways that people there are options out there that she will help people like Grace.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: Yes.
Alan Adjei: So what are the options that are out there, and how can people in Grace's situation, or even people that have employers to help them out? How can those options help people stay on track?
Dina Alongi Caggiula: Yeah. Well, this generation is so lucky to have as many,
Dina Alongi Caggiula: managed account solutions as we do.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: And what that means is, if you want, you could be a DIY investor and you can select your contribution rate yourself what you want to invest in. But many plans are now offering an advisor solution where you can either have a point in time consultation with an advisor just to kind of check in, get some like some tips and then you can go off and implement it, or you can actually have someone that you fully turn the keys over to and say, “Manage the account for me.” For a very small fee.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: So look for someone that has kind of a low-cost fee structure like a Vanguard.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: And then you can have that peace of mind to say someone else is actually taking care of the investment selections and checking in with me to make sure that I'm increasing my contributions. There's fully robo
Dina Alongi Caggiula: advisors out there where it's completely digital, or you can have the option of, you know, talking to a human, talking to an advisor.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: So I would say explore your managed account or advice options.
Alan Adjei: That’s awesome.
Alan Adjei: Well, let's look at another stat. So another recent Vanguard survey, found that about 32% of young adults have had a workplace retirement plan at a previous job, and 20% of those people cash it out when they left. Dina, you made a You made a face
Dina Alongi Caggiula: I did. I did.
Alan Adjei: As soon as I said‚” Cash it out”.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: It's a cringe moment.
Alan Adjei: What stands out to you, what is happening there and what stands out there?
Dina Alongi Caggiula: Okay, so when you leave a company which on average people are changing jobs nine times in their career, probably not surprising, right. And often what they do is you're, you're faced with a set of options. You can take a cash distribution which says, hey, I'm just going to pull all that money.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: Now, you can choose to keep it in the plan and it continues. It continues to grow. Or you can roll it over. Either roll it over into your new retirement plan or roll it into an IRA. So like those are the three options. And that what you're saying is a lot of people are choosing to cash out. What happens when you cash out is it comes often with some penalties, because you're not supposed to take that money out before you're 59 1/2 and so I really strongly advise people don't cash out.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: At the very least, consider staying in plan or rolling it into another plan. I have one more watch out though. If you roll it into another plan, it's often going to get set at the default contribution rate, which is typically lower, maybe like a 4%. So make sure you check in on that contribution. At least try to save up to what you were saving previously, but you have to take that action yourself.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: That new company is not going to do that for you. So just, just a caution.
Grace Lemire: I'm curious why you think or if there's any data on why so many people do cash it out. Because I feel like I've seen with, with my audience and my friends who've changed jobs. They just didn't know. They truly did not know what they should be doing with that money.
Grace Lemire: And then they're like, “Well, you know, I do, I do, I leave it there?” They think, “Well, I probably shouldn't leave it.” But then I found, you know, so my friends will say, well, they don't understand what a rollover is. They say what they feel like. The safest option most is to just take it and take the cash, because they feel more familiar with that.
Grace Lemire: I'm curious if there's any like what you're seeing.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: Yes, I do think it's like a psychological moment, right, where people trust having the money in their own hands versus saying like, “I'm going to leave it there” or “I have to move it.” and like kind of “it's out of the market for a few days.” So I do think it's kind of a psychological thing of why people are cashing out.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: Also, I think sometimes the balance is small and so people think like, “Oh, it's just $10,000. I'm just going to take it now.” But $10,000, if it continues to grow over time, is going to become 20,000, 30,000, 40,000. So I think that's why people are cashing out. And I feel like the answer is knowledge is power, right? Educate them on why you should stay in the plan or roll over and then I do think we've got our work cut out for us.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: People that are in client experience to make the process simpler
Alan Adjei: That makes a lot of sense. And I know we mentioned briefly this concept of rollover. We talked about people pulling it out in cash. But what happens? Is there something that happens when you roll over? I can think about myself. A couple of years back, I had a job and I said, “I'm going to travel for a little bit.”
Alan Adjei: So I left that job and I said, “do what you do.” And they rolled that over somewhere. Okay. Came back a couple years later and I said, “It's still basically the same.” Like what? I thought I was meant to do something. Now knowing what I know. Yes, I know what happened, but can you explain to my, the audience is listening what I did wrong?
Dina Alongi Caggiula: Yes.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: Okay. So there's two types of rollovers. One is you rollover to an IRA, which I think is what you did when you put it into an IRA. It's automatically defaulted into cash. You have to take the action of choosing what it gets invested in. If you don't take that action, it will just sit there for years, which happens.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: Yeah. The other is if you rollover into a new employer sponsored, plan like another 401K, that's where it's going to set you at that default contribution rate. So hopefully it's somewhat invested, but it just may not be at the amount that you want it to be. In both instances, you've got to make sure once it goes to the kind of destination where you rolled over to that, you interact and reengage and set it up appropriately.
Alan Adjei: So I guess now I want to put you on the spot because I think about myself and I may I say, “I wish I had a checklist.” I wish someone gave me a checklist that was like, give me a checklist when I sleep in a job. What I should have been thinking about. So what is a quick checklist with someone that can run through either mentally or write down when they change jobs? So they don’t have to lose progress.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: Sure, so first would be understand what options are available to you at the new employer. Do you have access to a plan? First and foremost, what are the fees in that plan? What's the investment lineup? What's the access to advice? If that's really attractive, then that may be an obvious choice to say, “Let's roll over the previous assets into that plan.”
Dina Alongi Caggiula: So first understand your plan. Second is make sure you choose
Dina Alongi Caggiula: the right contribution rate for you. A lot of times when you change jobs, it's for promotion. Most people don't change jobs just to change jobs, right? It's because it's maybe a bigger opportunity. So with that should be a moment where you consider, “Can I actually save more than what I was contributing before?”
Dina Alongi Caggiula: And so really think about now that your circumstances for change, what's the right contribution amount.
Alan Adjei: That's awesome. That's awesome. And then Grace, have you seen or heard people navigating this or even had to think about this yourself in a different way? You're self-employed like I've you've talked about the habits that you have right now, but as you're building towards that, I know you then had to roll over somewhere else, but have you been thinking about this yourself?
Grace Lemire: I honestly, like I have never had to roll over anything. I haven't had to because I have been self-employed and I haven't really changed jobs. I, I've worked for myself the whole time, but I do see it as something that my friends have had to try to figure out.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: Grace, can I ask you a question? Sure. How have you decided what to invest in?
Dina Alongi Caggiula: So you you have a retirement account? But then how did you decide what funds to choose? Did you make that decision yourself or…?
Grace Lemire: I did I do a lot of research on my own, and I thought about what my, my personal risk tolerance is and what I value, and you know, what my goals are. And then when it came to the amount that I invest, I am a big fan of reverse engineering.
Grace Lemire: That's what I call it, reverse engineering, the decisions that I make. So I think not like what do I want to do right now and then okay, that's just going to get me somewhere. You know, maybe it's not where I actually want to be. I think backwards and like, “where do I want to be at this point?” And then I say, “Okay, what do I need to do in order to get there?”
Grace Lemire: So with retirement, I thought, “Okay, what do I realistically need to have in my retirement account when I retire to live the life that I want when I retire?” And what does that mean in terms of what my contributions need to look like today? And then I got into some of the, you know, the FIRE stuff you're talking about and thinking, “Okay, if I invest, maybe a little more upfront, where does that get me down the line?”
Grace Lemire: And, you know, yeah, what would that look like? So I kind of I like to run the numbers and that's crazy. It's based on different scenarios.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: I love that, and I think you represent probably the minority, because what we're actually seeing is a lot of people don't want to do that research themselves. So they're choosing these target retirement funds or target date funds, which I think are another good option and probably worth us calling out to this audience, which is essentially, you say, the year that you want to retire.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: It's kind of like that reverse engineering tactics, like, say, I want to retire in, you know, 2050 and then that portfolio is managed for you and it becomes more conservative over time. Because you can afford to take more risks now. We can actually invest in some riskier assets because you have plenty of time to make it up, but it will adjust for you over time so you don't have to keep going back in and exploring.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: Like, “Should I change my investment lineup? Because maybe my risk tolerance is changing.” So I throw that out there just to say there's folks that are probably just like you that like, like crunching
Dina Alongi Caggiula: the numbers and like doing the research,
Grace Lemire: Yeah.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: and then there's other folks that use a target date fund, use a target retirement fund. That's exactly what they're there for.
Alan Adjei: Absolutely. And I think everyone thinks differently. I love that you're just really trying to figure out what is my next best step. Like let's say I'm already there and I'm doing something here, but I want to take the next step and do a little bit more research. Like is so empowering, being like, I'm just trying to figure out in this moment
Alan Adjei: what is happening and how can I progress one step at a time.
Alan Adjei: So we'll go one more stat before we wrap this up.
Alan Adjei: This is the same Vanguard survey that we're going to talk about. But 44% of 18 to 34 year old save for retirement on their own.
Alan Adjei: But 31% keep that money only in checkings or savings account. So, Grace, I want to start with you here because I think is something a lot of people actually can relate to.
Alan Adjei: When you save it on your own, it's easy to default, to feel safe and familiar. So how have you navigated that? Just understanding where your money should be and what you should be doing over time?
Grace Lemire: To kind of your point, you just said personal finance is personal. And I think that we can run the numbers, we can do the math.
Grace Lemire: And you know, that's really, really lovely. But there is also such an emotional side to it as well. And the same way that it takes time to get yourself feeling really good and comfortable with budgeting or with saving or whatever. Same thing with investing.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: Yeah. Good rule of thumb is you want to make sure you've got, you know, some emergency savings like that's always appropriate for like a checking or savings account at your bank.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: And you want to have at least $2,000. But truly, you want have like 3 to 6 months of living expenses. To me, anything beyond that you should be investing because you've got you've got your safety net now, like build up that emergency savings. You can feel confident knowing like in case of a job loss medical event, like something big.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: I've got my 3 to 6 months like that can hold me over anything beyond that. Put it in some type of investment account, make that money work for you.
Alan Adjei: Well, we're about to wrap it up. And Grace, I'm just going to pivot over to you. Is there one more thing that you just want to ask Dina before we wrap up?
Grace Lemire: Ooo, yeah.
Grace Lemire: If you could leave everyone listening with three takeaways or three things they should know, what would you say?
Dina Alongi Caggiula: Okay, First is find out if you have access to an employer plan, right. Make sure you know if your work is giving you an employer plan. And certainly if you're getting a match. Second, make some small sacrifices to start small.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: Get some contributions into a retirement account. They're going to pay off in the long run. And then third, really think about your total financial picture. So if you have debt, try to tackle some of that like high interest debt. Make sure you've got some emergency savings. Like think about the full picture. It's not just about retirement. We want to make sure like you're cared for in total so that you can achieve all of your financial dreams.
Grace Lemire: I love that.
Alan Adjei: Amazing. Well thank you both so much for being here today. Had a great time talking to both of you.
Grace Lemire: Thanks for having me.
Dina Alongi Caggiula: Thank you.
Alan Adjei: The question we started with was what would your future self want you to start doing today? And hopefully that feels more tangible now for 401Ks, to employer matches, to simple habits. These are the kind of decisions that build over time. So if this resonated with the connect with us on social media. Send us a message and we'd love to hear what you're thinking through.
Alan Adjei: You can also visit inmyfinanceera.com for resources tied episode to help you take your next best step. Thanks again for listening and we'll catch you soon.
